Oy Bay!

"My heart is in the east, and I in the uttermost west." — Yehudah Ha-Levi

Oy Bay beats ’em too it…

Posted by lchaimlover on October 14, 2007

Back in June, I wrote an article regarding circumcision called “To Cut or Not To Cut” regarding the decline in circumcision by anti-traditionalists. Well look who just picked up the story idea: YNet: Jewish ‘intactivists’ in US stop circumcising“. Once again, we at Oy Bay are just a few steps ahead of the rest…at least I like to think so.

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16 Responses to “Oy Bay beats ’em too it…”

  1. Oyster said

    Not that I don’t think that Oy Bay is a ‘cut above the rest’, but this isn’t exactly the first time that this story has been covered… as much as I like to gloat about us being first to a story. :-p

  2. Stephen Jerome said

    Cut above or not; first to do story or not; neither makes a difference. What is important is that intactivism is making headways into Jewish communities, to which I say, PRAISE ADONAI!!! Hopefully, one day soon, practicing Judaism and maintaining their identity, while leaving their sons intact will become the new norm with Judaism. Speedily may the day come that Judaism will evolve to the point that Jews realize that circumcision is a practice best left to its history. V’Yimiru Amen.

  3. sigalli said

    stephen Jerome,
    Having moved to Europe , and Baruch hashem , having given birth to two males, i can tell you that when i look around me at the kiddies swimming area and see those “elephant” boys i feel like becoming a Mohel and finishing the job.
    i think circumcised penises are better looking , more hygenic, and the non jewish father of my boys thought the same though he kept his as he got it , we are now separated, he was not half the man any of the jewish men i have been with were
    so i am not advocating the end of this tradition, i think we should be proud just like a lot of people in warm lands, Moslems, and Africans follow this tradition, it is cleaner, and looks better and i might add, works better!
    Dont stop cutting!
    P.S. yes, it is not the most pleasant thing to watch but neither is the dentist at work

  4. lchaimlover said

    awe oyster, why do you have to burst my bubble?

  5. biggerlongeranduncut said

    First off, I’d like to say read my name. The idea that one should be cutting off part of your son’s penis because you think it looks better cut is ridiculous. At what age are people looking at it? It is a permanent modification and I personally would rather not have my parents making choices about how my genitalia should look.

    That being said there is a lot of evidence that shows circumcision can reduce a male’s chance of getting infected with HIV,

    “Circumcised men are up to 60% less likely to get HIV, and now the World Health Organization and the UNAIDS program recommend adult surgery to slow the AIDS pandemic.”
    (http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/20070329/circumcision-new-weapon-against-aids)

    Whether you are religions, secular, Jew, Muslim, Christian… We should overlook our personal prejudices and and do what is best for the child. I think the practice looks barbaric and there is no way I would get circumcised; however if it could save my future son’s life, I’d be a bad father if i didn’t get him cut.

  6. Wow, sigalli, that’s pretty creepy that you felt a need to permanently alter your sons’ genital against their will just so you find their penis “attractive”. Are you going to be sleeping w/ him? How would you feel if a man found your genitals unattractive? Would you be willing to go into a surgeon’s office for a labia reduction? I guess you see yourself as ruler of the free world, permanently altering anyone you see fit of their natural appearance to please your visuals. As for your husband,– I see he partakes in your insanity, but on top of that, is also a total coward for not getting circumcised himself. lol I don’t doubt him for being rid of a shrew like you. http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

  7. Ron Low said

    ^^ if it could save my future son’s life, I’d be a bad father if i didn’t get him cut. ^^
    – – – – –

    First off, it WON’T save his life. The cut men in the Afircan trials GOT HIV at a rate six times higher than the rate of new infections for African-American men.

    Second, INFANTS don’t have sex.

    HIS body, HIS decision.

    80% of the world is intact. Don’t make him a mutilated freak.

  8. Oyster said

    Wow, I didn’t realize that there were so many Jewish men with insecurity issues & inferiority complexes.

    Thanks for writing here, fellas. Oh, and just like an American muscle-car convertible, you having a foreskin won’t help you resolve those underlying psychological issues.

  9. ArchAngelinAmerica said

    I didn’t realize this was such a hot button issue. Being circumsized myself, (in the traditional way) I can’t claim to know what it is like the other way around. But it all seems to work pretty well as it is. I don’t personally feel like a mutilated freak and this issue has ALMOST never arose in conversation with my male Jewish friends. Of course, they could have massive issues with this that makes them uncomfortable bringing it up. With regards to safety, it probably cuts two ways (so to speak). Overall there may be a lower rate of infection among circumsized men, but (as I hope we all know) correlation does not imply causation. In rural areas of Africa where the education is abyssmal and crazy rumors dominate sex education, circumsized men probably believe they have some type of immunity. YES…I just made a generalization. I am aware it does not apply to everyone. That is what a generalization is. Furthermore, my interpretation of two statistics presented here is just my interpretation and I am aware that it has little to no intrinsic value. Finally, of course we shouldn’t make decisions solely based on look. But that doesn’t change the fact that people do it all the time. If you could prevent your child from being overweight, would you do that? And I think that Sigalli may have made her statement a little tongue in cheek. Of course I have no idea who she is, so I could be wrong, and I could also get struck by lightning. I think the important part of her post is that she does not advocate ending a millenia old tradition that links us as a people. And don’t spew out some argument at me about how we no longer engage in sacrifice! Some traditions we keep, some we don’t. Everyone gets to choose. Lucky us.

  10. clipper said

    My sons penis, my sons body, I think I should cut it, I think I should leave it alone,God granted your son his arm his leg he’s foot and he can take as he gives.God in his wisdom told us to circumcise. I think god knows what he is doing

  11. Hugh7 said

    AAA: “Everyone gets to choose.”

    Well, actually, no, the baby who is held down to have the most sensitive part of his p nis cut off does not.

    “A millennia old tradition that links us as a people”. Muslims, gentile Americans, Philippinos, South Koreans, tribal Africans, Eastern Polynesians and some Australian aboriginal tribes do it too (and the Australians probably for much longer). Are you linked to them? Or is it the ceremony that links you? A ceremony you’re glad you can’t remember?

    Oyster: your comparision with a convertible is apt. What would you think of a convertible salesman who took off and threw away the roof of every one he sold? Sure, AAA, a sports car “seems to work pretty well” on a fine day with the wind blowing in your hair, but as you grow older, you appreciate being warm and dry. And there the analogy breaks down, because f0reskins don’t leak.

  12. Oyster said

    Hugh7 writes: because f0reskins don’t leak.

    Yep, who would want to lose precious smegma? Good point. Sounds very rational, hygenic, & non-psychotic to me…

  13. Miriam Pollack said

    Before any discussion of the so-called merits of circumcision take place some of the basic ignorance of the functions of the foreskin need to be clarified before advocating its removal: a) it protects the infant penis from urine and feces b) it contains over 20,000 fine touch nerve receptors c) it comprises up to half of the adult erect penile tissue d) it changes the dynamics of intercourse by allowing the penis to glide in and out of its own lubricated sheath, rather than extracting vaginal lubrication with every outward thrust. Furthermore, a denuded glans loses its moist surface, abraids against underwear and thickens over time creating a secondary loss of sensitivity by the time men reach middle age often requiring deep rapid thrusting in order to achieve adequate stimulation, something many women, especially menopausal women do not enjoy. If you think circumcision is a deterent for HIV, consider that the U.S. has one of the highest HIV rates in the West and the highest circumcision rate. The African studies are extremely flawed and I would urge anyone considering circumcision for these reasons to check out the research on http://www.nocirc.org or http://www.doc.org. Yes, it is an ancient Jewish rite, but our children, male and female will be Jews if their mothers are Jews and they will remain Jews if we give them meaningful and loving Jewish homes and Jewish education, not if we cut their innocent genitals in the name of “spirituality”.

  14. Oyster said

    Miriam Pollack writes: and they will remain Jews if we give them meaningful and loving Jewish homes and Jewish education

    I wonder if that Jewish education will include how the Torah commands circumcision, how our forefathers from Biblical times praticed Brit Milah, and how Jews throughout the centuries, and even during the Holocaust, risked their lives to practice this age-old tradition in the face of horrific persecution.

    Or is that all gonna be white-washed?

  15. Miriam Pollack said

    Regarding the objection “Oyster” raised concerning NOT circumcising, first: there are many biblical injunctions which we no longer follow, stoning adulterers, Temple sacrifice, etc.; second, yes, Jews have martyred themselves to keep circumcision and, has it really served Jewish survival interests when all the oppressor has to do is pull down pants to determine Jewish identity and eliminate that Jew. Genital cutting can be “spiritualized” all we want, but it doesn’t change the profoundly traumatic experience of the innocent newborn, nor include him in the decision as to whether he wants the most highly ennervated portion of his penis permanently removed. For many of us, if it isn’t ethical, it can’t be spiritual!

  16. Oyster said

    Regarding the circumlocution of “Miriam” “Pollack”:

    Nice dodge, “Miriam”. But I asked you a simple question: will your Anti-Circ Judaism going to teach all parts of Judaism equally, or are you going to pick & choose what to teach? Will you have your children read the entire Torah without censorship, or will you just conveniently remove the passages regarding circumcision?

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